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MZC: As you know, Vedanta teaches that if you go deeply into that awareness, that consciousness, you may spontaneously fall into the Self and that's all that is. All is arising as a modification of this Consciousness.

As wonderful as it is to have such noble values be part of Thai arts and culture, long hours of daily seated meditation and prayer stiffen the hip joints and the lower back muscles. Again, Thai massage is the commonly sought remedy.

BN: Yes, the more I live here, the more I understand the problems unique to the people here. I connect more and I am more sympathetic. And I also learn. During the retreats we have the interview. I come to see that people have a wide variety of problems. Sometimes, I feel like a psychologist. I listen. I realize that people do not come here only to learn about Buddhism, but to address some problem. I notice that many people want to know what's behind their dissatisfaction with so many areas of life, with the government, the economy, family, inner turmoil.



MZC: Batchelor is specifically talking about the rebirth in the Indian philosophy where there is a rebirth of the individual soul or atma, which goes from life to life. Batchelor says that the Buddha was not interested in whether this is true or not, whether there is even a soul, if "the mind is different from the body." And further, we cannot know the answer to such questions.

Massage Therapy is a well-known and well-documented remedy for inducing relaxation and reducing mental stress. In particular, traditional Thai massage with its slow meditative and rhythmic compressions, yoga-like stretches, and passive joint movements seemed to be an ideal tool for someone like Harvey.

theravada BN: But in the Tipitaka, you have so many references from the Buddha himself that refer to rebirth. Even in the Dhammapada we have these two verses that the Buddha announced after he became enlightened which refer to rebirth and the ending of rebirth. And doesn't "dependent origination"--which Batchelor accepts-- include the notion of rebirth?

BN: I changed my life. Before I had only read, but when you meet with a teacher and stay close to a teacher, well that is the great change. I turned around. I felt a transformation by practicing and learning from my teacher. I discovered an inner happiness and peace. I felt I found an opportunity to know what the Buddha taught. I stayed with my teacher until he died; even after I came to Mexico, I used to accompany my teacher when he traveled. I stayed with him for almost 20 years.

Why do they do that? What is the meaning of this worship? Well, the Buddha isn't a god. He isn't even present in this world anymore. After his Parinirvana, he passed from the cycle of death and rebirth. He doesn't exist anymore like us. He can't influence this world, at least directly. That is exactly what these worshipers believed.